IF THERE IS EVER GOING TO BE RACIAL JUSTICE IN THE UNITED STATES, A LOT OF OLD PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DIE!

I had a conversation with my neighbor a few days ago that led me to the conclusion that is the title of this essay. Jay was walking his dog and stopped at the end of the driveway to have a chat. He asked what I thought of the banning of the Dr. Seuss books and I told him that the books were not banned, but that the estate of the author had chosen to quit selling those six titles because of racially insensitive illustrations. Jay stated emphatically that this was all the result of the liberals poisoning people’s minds, and anyway, “black people should be grateful that we freed them during the civil war.” That came out of left field for me and I was unsure how to respond.

Now, I grew up in the deep, deep south and remember as a child seeing the whites only signs, segregated waiting rooms at the doctor’s office, segregated schools, and so on. It was our way of life and we saw no issue with it. Being white, why would we? My parents sent me away to private school the year that our public schools were integrated so I would not be going to school with black people (he had another name for them). When we drove through Tuskegee, AL he would denigrate the college there as inferior because all of the teachers and students were black. And, well everybody knows that blacks are not nearly as smart as white people. So, I had a pretty good idea of where Jay was coming from with his comment about freeing the slaves.

I asked Jay what the confederate flag symbolized to him? His answer; “people that are proud of their heritage and their history.” I asked him about statues to confederate generals like R. E. Lee? His answer; “they were honorable people and heroes that were fighting for what they believed in.” He then shot back with “what does black lives matter mean to you?” I replied, that “it symbolizes the injustice in our criminal justice system that kills and incarcerates black men and black people in general at a rate that is up to 10 times that of whites in some states and at least 2 times as great nationwide. As a percentage of the population, black people are killed by police at a rate between 4 and 5 times that of whites. That black people are more than two times as likely as whites to be stopped by police.”

We discussed some of the history of the civil war and its causes. I tried to convince Jay that the root cause of the war was truly about slavery, but he was buying none of it. Now I am no civil war scholar, but growing up in the south I have read quite a bit about the war, its causes, and consequences. Even as a child I knew that there were some things that I was taught in school that just did not square with logic. The myth that the war had nothing to do with slavery, but was the result of economic suppression by the northern states was one of the best of them. The truth is that in order to remain competitive in a rapidly industrializing society southern landowners had to retain their slaves in order to minimize their costs. Otherwise they could not compete.

Jay said that the police stop blacks more often than whites because they are more likely to be criminals than whites. I suggested to him that he was not correct on that statistic and further suggested that a large part of the reason was due to implicit bias by police when dealing with people of color, especially African American folks. Jay said that there were criminals in all races and that police treat them the same. I again suggested that the criminal justice system was biased against African American suspects and that it has been shown that they are given harsher sentences than other racial groups. He did agree, but said again that blacks are more likely to be criminals than other races.

Our conversation circled back around to the flag of the confederacy, removal of statues of southern figures, the recent insurrection at the Capital in Washington, DC, and renaming of military bases. Jay is adamant that all of these things are a result of good people just standing up for their beliefs and bad people trying to rewrite, or ignore our history. In the end Jay is convinced that there is nothing negative about the confederate flag and what it symbolizes to most of us. Statues to confederate generals are heroes that should be honored, and the same is true of the naming of military bases, schools, and other buildings.

I thought a long time about my conversation with Jay afterwards. His comments and statements rumbling around in my head made me a little nauseous. Jay is only about 5 years older than me, he’s 70 or so, but it seems that somewhere along the way he just decided to quit growing. He quit reimagining the world and reaching out to understand the views and perceptions of others. There are a lot of Jays out there still roaming around, refusing to change and to seek to understand. I think it is easier for people to stay the same than it is to seek new knowledge and new understanding.

I thought about my journey as it continues and how much I have changed from that racially brainwashed southern child to an aging adult trying to stay interested, focused, flexible, forever learning and seeking to understand. I will never know what it is to be black, but I can read black authors to help me understand the struggle. I can listen to Rev. Al Sharpton with an appreciation that I never had in the eighties and nineties. I have read the autobiography of Malcom X and tried to understand his point of view. There are others of course, but the point is that while I am trying to be a better human seeking to appreciate and empathize with all of my fellow humans there are so many Jays out there that are continuing to perpetuate the old and worn stereotypes and prejudices.

Younger folks in their twenties and thirties seem to be less inclined to prejudice and hate than my generation. I am the end of the baby boomers and I believe that a lot of us are going to have to die before there is a chance for racial justice become a reality in the United States.